Five years ago, Tammy, 52, and Dennis Gray, 54, owed $65,000 in credit card debt and student loans. After their son and daughter went off to college, the empty nesters realized they wanted more from life than being in debt.

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“We knew we needed to do something because it wasn’t going to get better,” Tammy tells NBC News BETTER.

The pennsylvania couple say they tried different techniques, but nothing worked. “We could never stay disciplined,” says Dennis, a pastor at a church in Kingston, pA.

They combined the envelope system, a method of using visualization to stow away extra cash, with the debt snowball method, where you pay more than your minimum payment on your credit cards.

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The couple also made moves to reduce their spending. They began eating less expensive meals, and cut back on things they didn’t need, like cable. They say switching to an antenna, which provided 20 channels for free, saved them a big chunk of cash each month.

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