2003-10-31 13:46:59尚未設定
蛆人交易？Maggot's Advocate?
看到陶狗在蘋果提到「DEVIL'S ADVOCATE」，還以為此狗又燒到亞爾伯仙奴，孰知原來又是笑話一場。
“ 歐 洲 在 中 世 紀 的 黑 暗 時 代 ， 教 廷 到 處 搜 捕 異 端 分 子 ， 宗 教 裁 判 所 審 訊 一 個 人 ， 明 明 裁 判 所 的 紅 衣 主 教 恨 死 眼 前 的 被 告 了 ， 認 定 他 在 宣 揚 邪 說 ， 是 魔 鬼 的 化 身 ， 也 必 須 分 派 一 個 主 教 給 他 ， 為 他 引 經 辯 護 ， 讓 他 有 脫 罪 的 機 會 ， 這 就 叫 「 魔 鬼 的 辯 護 士 」 （ Devil's Advocate ） 。 魔 鬼 的 辯 護 士 ， 由 教 廷 付 錢 ， 給 一 個 辯 護 士 來 駁 斥 自 己 ， 即 使 「 魔 鬼 」 本 身 最 後 罪 成 ， 判 處 火 刑 ， 辯 護 士 也 沒 有 罪 。 ”
只要肯花心思查一查，便知道陶狗只是在胡扯。中世紀的教會又怎會有餘錢請這個「奇諾里維斯」？
根據網上多間大學認可的中世紀資料站：MEDIEVAL SOURCEBOOK，「宗教審判」INQUISITION，其過程通常如下：
Bernard Gui: was Inquisitor in Toulousel 1307-1323. The medieval inquisition had been created during the reign of Pope Gregory IX (1227-1241). Its main technique was to extract confessions. Bernard describes the techniques used in interrogations.
When a heretic is first brought up for examination, he assumes a confident air, as though secure in his innocence. I ask him why he has been brought before me. He replies, smiling and courteous, "Sir, I would be glad to learn the cause from you."
I You are accused as a heretic, and that you believe and teach otherwise than Holy Church believes.
A. (Raising his eyes to heaven, with an air of the greatest faith) Lord, thou knowest that I am innocent of this, and that I never held any faith other than that of true Christianity.
I You call your faith Christian, for you consider ours as false and heretical. But I ask whether you have ever believed as true another faith than that which the Roman Church holds to be true?
A. I believe the true faith which the Roman Church believes, and which you openly preach to us.
I Perhaps you have some of your sect at Rome whom you call the Roman Church. I, when I preach, say many things, some of which are common to us both, as that God liveth, and you believe some of what I preach. Nevertheless you may be a heretic in not believing other matters which are to be believed.
A. I believe all things that a Christian should believe.
I I know your tricks. What the members of your sect believe you hold to be that which a Christian should believe. But we waste time in this fencing. Say simply, Do you believe in one God the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost?
A. I believe.
L Do you believe in Christ born of the Virgin, suffered, risen, and ascended to heaven?
A. (Briskly) I believe.
I Do you believe the bread and wine in the mass performed by the priests to be changed into the body and blood of Christ by divine virtue?
A. Ought I not to believe this?
I I don't ask if you ought to believe, but if you do believe.
A. I believe whatever you and other good doctors order me to believe.
I Those good doctors are the masters of your sect; if I accord with them you believe with me; if not, not.
A I willingly believe with you if you teach what is good to me.
I. You consider it good to you if I teach what your other masters teach. Say, then, do you believe the body of our Lord,lesus Christ to be in the altar?
A. (Promptly) I believe that a body is there, and that all bodies are of our Lord.
I I ask whether the body there is of the Lord who was born of the Virgin, hung on the cross, arose from the dead, ascended, etc.
A. And you, sir, do you not believe it?
L I believe it wholly.
A. I believe likewise.
L You believe that I believe it, which is not what I ask, but whether you believe it.
A. If you wish to interpret all that I say otherwise than simply and plainly, then I don't know what to say. I am a simple and ignorant man. Pray don't catch me in my words.
I. If you are simple, answer simply, without evasions.
A. Willingly.
I Will you then swear that you have never learned anything contrary to the faith which we hold to be true?
A. (Growing pale) If I ought to swear, I will willingly swear.
I I don't ask whether you ought, but whether you will swear.
A. If you order me to swear, I will swear.
I I don't force you to swear, because as you believe oaths to be unlawful, you will transfer the sin to me who forced you; but if you will swear, I will hear it.
A. Why should I swear if you do not order me to?
I So that you may remove the suspicion of being a heretic.
A. Sir, I do not know how unless you teach me.
. I. If I had to swear, I would raise my hand and spread my fingers and say, "So help me God, I have never learned heresy or believed what is contrary to the true faith."
Then trembling as if he cannot repeat the form, he will stumble along as though speaking for himself or for another, so that there is not an absolute form of oath and yet he may be thought to have sworn. If the words are there, they are so turned around that he does not swear and yet appears to have sworn. Or he converts the oath into a form of prayer, as "God help me that I am not a heretic or the like"; and when asked whether he had sworn, he will say: "Did you not hear me swear?" [And when further hard pressed he will appeal, saying] "Sir, if I have done amiss in aught, I will willingly bear the penance, only help me to avoid the infamy of which I am accused though malice and without fault of mine." But a vigorous inquisitor must not allow himself to be worked upon in this way, but proceed firmly till he make these people confess their error, or at least publicly abjure heresy, so that if they are subsequently found to have sworn falsely, he can without further hearing, abandon them to the secular arm".
from H. C. Lea, trans., A History of the Inquisition of the Middle Ages, (New York, Harper & Brothers, 1887), Vol. 1, pp. 411-414.
這過程好比中國文化大革命時「經典場面」：
被鬥者：我不是黑幫。
造反派：你不認承是黑幫，你就是反抗！
被鬥者：我沒有反抗！
造反派：你不反抗，就證明是黑幫！
被鬥者：我不是黑幫。
……
中國在這方面被西方落後了約七百多年，看來要急起直追。
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
那麼，陶狗那廝提到的「DEVIL'S ADVOCATE」又是什麼東東？
據網上「http://www.newadvent.org/」組織的天主教資料庫中，查到「Advocatus Diaboli」一項：
("Advocate of the Devil" or "Devil's Advocate").
A popular title given to one of the most important officers of the Sacred Congregation of Rites, established in 1587, by Sixtus V, to deal juridically with processes of beatification and canonization.
His official title is Promoter of the Faith (Promotor Fidei).
His duty requires him to prepare in writing all possible arguments, even at times seemingly slight, AGAINST the raising of any one to the honours of the altar.
The interest and honour of the Church are concerned in preventing any one from receiving those honours whose death is not juridically proved to have been "precious in the sight of God" (see BEATIFICATION and CANONIZATION).
Prospero Lamertini, afterwards Pope Benedict XIV (1740-58), was the Promoter of the Faith for twenty years, and had every opportunity to study the workings of the Church in this most important function; he was, therefore, peculiarly qualified to compose his monumental work "On the Beatification and Canonization of Saints," which contains the complete vindication of the rights of the Church in this matter, and sets forth historically its extreme care of the use of this right.
No important act in the process of beatification or canonization is valid unless performed in the presence of the Promoter of the Faith formally recognized. His duty is to protest against the omission of the forms laid down, and to insist upon the consideration of any objection.
The first formal mention of such an officer is found in the canonization of St. Lawrence Justinian under Leo X (1513-21). Urban VIII, in 1631, made his presence necessary, at least by deputy, for the validity of any act connected with the process of beatification or canonization.
簡單來說，就是教會對「聖徒預備役」宣佈「真福」後，由一位資深的主教對那人在世時的種種作為作出質疑、詰難，從而更加堅固和確實這人的「聖徒」身份，並不是什麼「教會請來的辯護律師」。
就愚某的了解，這種舉動，大有可能脫胎自耶蘇曠野四十日中的魔鬼試探。所以才有「DEVIL'S ADVOCATE」之稱吧。
愚某對天主教所知不多，但肯花心思去查一查，也能踢爆某某狗賊的胡謅。也希望版上可有天主教徒，來踢一踢愚某所寫的是否也是胡謅。
香港地竟然有人肯花錢去買這廝的書——他們的錢多得沒處花，不如給愚某。
“ 歐 洲 在 中 世 紀 的 黑 暗 時 代 ， 教 廷 到 處 搜 捕 異 端 分 子 ， 宗 教 裁 判 所 審 訊 一 個 人 ， 明 明 裁 判 所 的 紅 衣 主 教 恨 死 眼 前 的 被 告 了 ， 認 定 他 在 宣 揚 邪 說 ， 是 魔 鬼 的 化 身 ， 也 必 須 分 派 一 個 主 教 給 他 ， 為 他 引 經 辯 護 ， 讓 他 有 脫 罪 的 機 會 ， 這 就 叫 「 魔 鬼 的 辯 護 士 」 （ Devil's Advocate ） 。 魔 鬼 的 辯 護 士 ， 由 教 廷 付 錢 ， 給 一 個 辯 護 士 來 駁 斥 自 己 ， 即 使 「 魔 鬼 」 本 身 最 後 罪 成 ， 判 處 火 刑 ， 辯 護 士 也 沒 有 罪 。 ”
只要肯花心思查一查，便知道陶狗只是在胡扯。中世紀的教會又怎會有餘錢請這個「奇諾里維斯」？
根據網上多間大學認可的中世紀資料站：MEDIEVAL SOURCEBOOK，「宗教審判」INQUISITION，其過程通常如下：
Bernard Gui: was Inquisitor in Toulousel 1307-1323. The medieval inquisition had been created during the reign of Pope Gregory IX (1227-1241). Its main technique was to extract confessions. Bernard describes the techniques used in interrogations.
When a heretic is first brought up for examination, he assumes a confident air, as though secure in his innocence. I ask him why he has been brought before me. He replies, smiling and courteous, "Sir, I would be glad to learn the cause from you."
I You are accused as a heretic, and that you believe and teach otherwise than Holy Church believes.
A. (Raising his eyes to heaven, with an air of the greatest faith) Lord, thou knowest that I am innocent of this, and that I never held any faith other than that of true Christianity.
I You call your faith Christian, for you consider ours as false and heretical. But I ask whether you have ever believed as true another faith than that which the Roman Church holds to be true?
A. I believe the true faith which the Roman Church believes, and which you openly preach to us.
I Perhaps you have some of your sect at Rome whom you call the Roman Church. I, when I preach, say many things, some of which are common to us both, as that God liveth, and you believe some of what I preach. Nevertheless you may be a heretic in not believing other matters which are to be believed.
A. I believe all things that a Christian should believe.
I I know your tricks. What the members of your sect believe you hold to be that which a Christian should believe. But we waste time in this fencing. Say simply, Do you believe in one God the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost?
A. I believe.
L Do you believe in Christ born of the Virgin, suffered, risen, and ascended to heaven?
A. (Briskly) I believe.
I Do you believe the bread and wine in the mass performed by the priests to be changed into the body and blood of Christ by divine virtue?
A. Ought I not to believe this?
I I don't ask if you ought to believe, but if you do believe.
A. I believe whatever you and other good doctors order me to believe.
I Those good doctors are the masters of your sect; if I accord with them you believe with me; if not, not.
A I willingly believe with you if you teach what is good to me.
I. You consider it good to you if I teach what your other masters teach. Say, then, do you believe the body of our Lord,lesus Christ to be in the altar?
A. (Promptly) I believe that a body is there, and that all bodies are of our Lord.
I I ask whether the body there is of the Lord who was born of the Virgin, hung on the cross, arose from the dead, ascended, etc.
A. And you, sir, do you not believe it?
L I believe it wholly.
A. I believe likewise.
L You believe that I believe it, which is not what I ask, but whether you believe it.
A. If you wish to interpret all that I say otherwise than simply and plainly, then I don't know what to say. I am a simple and ignorant man. Pray don't catch me in my words.
I. If you are simple, answer simply, without evasions.
A. Willingly.
I Will you then swear that you have never learned anything contrary to the faith which we hold to be true?
A. (Growing pale) If I ought to swear, I will willingly swear.
I I don't ask whether you ought, but whether you will swear.
A. If you order me to swear, I will swear.
I I don't force you to swear, because as you believe oaths to be unlawful, you will transfer the sin to me who forced you; but if you will swear, I will hear it.
A. Why should I swear if you do not order me to?
I So that you may remove the suspicion of being a heretic.
A. Sir, I do not know how unless you teach me.
. I. If I had to swear, I would raise my hand and spread my fingers and say, "So help me God, I have never learned heresy or believed what is contrary to the true faith."
Then trembling as if he cannot repeat the form, he will stumble along as though speaking for himself or for another, so that there is not an absolute form of oath and yet he may be thought to have sworn. If the words are there, they are so turned around that he does not swear and yet appears to have sworn. Or he converts the oath into a form of prayer, as "God help me that I am not a heretic or the like"; and when asked whether he had sworn, he will say: "Did you not hear me swear?" [And when further hard pressed he will appeal, saying] "Sir, if I have done amiss in aught, I will willingly bear the penance, only help me to avoid the infamy of which I am accused though malice and without fault of mine." But a vigorous inquisitor must not allow himself to be worked upon in this way, but proceed firmly till he make these people confess their error, or at least publicly abjure heresy, so that if they are subsequently found to have sworn falsely, he can without further hearing, abandon them to the secular arm".
from H. C. Lea, trans., A History of the Inquisition of the Middle Ages, (New York, Harper & Brothers, 1887), Vol. 1, pp. 411-414.
這過程好比中國文化大革命時「經典場面」：
被鬥者：我不是黑幫。
造反派：你不認承是黑幫，你就是反抗！
被鬥者：我沒有反抗！
造反派：你不反抗，就證明是黑幫！
被鬥者：我不是黑幫。
……
中國在這方面被西方落後了約七百多年，看來要急起直追。
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
那麼，陶狗那廝提到的「DEVIL'S ADVOCATE」又是什麼東東？
據網上「http://www.newadvent.org/」組織的天主教資料庫中，查到「Advocatus Diaboli」一項：
("Advocate of the Devil" or "Devil's Advocate").
A popular title given to one of the most important officers of the Sacred Congregation of Rites, established in 1587, by Sixtus V, to deal juridically with processes of beatification and canonization.
His official title is Promoter of the Faith (Promotor Fidei).
His duty requires him to prepare in writing all possible arguments, even at times seemingly slight, AGAINST the raising of any one to the honours of the altar.
The interest and honour of the Church are concerned in preventing any one from receiving those honours whose death is not juridically proved to have been "precious in the sight of God" (see BEATIFICATION and CANONIZATION).
Prospero Lamertini, afterwards Pope Benedict XIV (1740-58), was the Promoter of the Faith for twenty years, and had every opportunity to study the workings of the Church in this most important function; he was, therefore, peculiarly qualified to compose his monumental work "On the Beatification and Canonization of Saints," which contains the complete vindication of the rights of the Church in this matter, and sets forth historically its extreme care of the use of this right.
No important act in the process of beatification or canonization is valid unless performed in the presence of the Promoter of the Faith formally recognized. His duty is to protest against the omission of the forms laid down, and to insist upon the consideration of any objection.
The first formal mention of such an officer is found in the canonization of St. Lawrence Justinian under Leo X (1513-21). Urban VIII, in 1631, made his presence necessary, at least by deputy, for the validity of any act connected with the process of beatification or canonization.
簡單來說，就是教會對「聖徒預備役」宣佈「真福」後，由一位資深的主教對那人在世時的種種作為作出質疑、詰難，從而更加堅固和確實這人的「聖徒」身份，並不是什麼「教會請來的辯護律師」。
就愚某的了解，這種舉動，大有可能脫胎自耶蘇曠野四十日中的魔鬼試探。所以才有「DEVIL'S ADVOCATE」之稱吧。
愚某對天主教所知不多，但肯花心思去查一查，也能踢爆某某狗賊的胡謅。也希望版上可有天主教徒，來踢一踢愚某所寫的是否也是胡謅。
香港地竟然有人肯花錢去買這廝的書——他們的錢多得沒處花，不如給愚某。